between the white house and the senate immigration proposal. at 9:15, soldiers with coach not excessive shorter -- social medic stress disorder. host: several budget conversations swirling around washington during the annual budget season. the sequestration talks dominating the chatter. that's our starting point this morning on the washington journal. should sequestration be allowed? you can see the numbers on the screen if you would like to participate in the conversation. you can contact us via social media as well on twitter or

facebook. and e-mail. front page of the washington times this morning --

backs the "washington times small lead story this morning. should sequestration be allowed hrough?roopt

that's our question. we begin with a democrat in georgia. caller: the democrats need to stay away from this. these people's ratings are so low. they should allow the sequester. this is the only way. obama and the democrats need to do everything they can to protect the social programs, medicare, social security. if they cut these programs, they are going to lose. let the republicans put these cuts on the table. on immigration, as far as the sequester, it will help. the democrats must no allow these people amnesty without giving african-americans amnesty who have misdemeanors who served

their time. host: we are talking about sequestration during this first segment. thomas in texas on the republican line. should sequestration be allowed? caller: i don't feel that it is our best option, however, i do think a better option than making a bad deal and kicking the can down the road. a lot of defects may have been exaggerated. -- the effects have been exaggerated. and when the media says they are proposing to reduce the pay of military members, in reality they are producing their pay raise. if you can live on to thousand dollars a month now, you can live on it next year.

you cannot lose something you ever had. and a reduction in funding for wic is taking food out of a baby's mouth, they make it sound like they are getting rid of it. the same people will continue to receive it, it will just be at a lesser degree. a deal is better than no deal. host: what do you think about the proposed tax increases the president made yesterday? caller: i think, my issue with that -- we have already had our tax increase in the first place. i don't necessarily agree with them. i realize that you need a little more revenue. i will agree with that to an extent, because it is both sides. if he is trying come to a

balanced proposal at this point in time and propose equal cuts versus revenue, that's not fair, because we have already increased our taxes in the first place. the original deal was supposed to solve the fiscal cliff. host: april is on our facebook page. randy is an independent in butler, oklahoma. good morning. caller: i think they ought to let it go through. military budgets have doubled in the last 12 years and the research and development part of

that is over $60 billion. that is not buying tanks or anything. we have spent $200 billion on the f-22 program, the fight for that no one wants. plenty of things to cut. go ahead and raise my taxes. i realize we have to bring in more money. i'm a grown-up. i will just take home less money, but we have to keep the government going. thanks for letting me talk. have a great day. host: here's the financial times this morning --

that's the financial times on this issue. also in the financial times, because of potential sequestration, u.s. carrier kept from gult. -- gulf. the next call comes from libya in upper marlboro, maryland, here in the suburbs. democratic line. caller: hi. i don't think the sequester should be allowed to take affect. it is already having an effect on businesses. my daughter-in-law lost her job last friday. she had only been working five months. first there was a job freeze and then they laid off five people. the house members, i don't know what's wrong with them. every time the economy starts to

take off, they sabotage economy. i saw a chart yesterday that the deficit has already fallen from $1 trillion to $648 billion with the cuts they did in 2011. as far as taxes, they need to change the tax code. businesses need to pay their fair share. i get $22,000 in my civil service and social security. i paid $448 in taxes last year. i am 76 years old. i am barely surviving. host: you mentioned at the beginning that your daughter-in- law, where she employed with a company that depended on government financing? >> yes, some government contracts, so they froze things to try to save jobs and then last friday they laid off five people. -- they froze hiring. host: willie is with us on the

line. caller: i look at it like this, when you have a drought, in order to break the drought, everybody has to pay for it. a storm, you have to have a hurricane or a tornado to break a drought. some people are going to get flooded out. so i hope that it will go through. let it do what it is supposed to do and get this stuff straightened out. everybody's looking out for themselves. i worked for general motors. the only thing that got general motors back on track was they had to file bankruptcy and get rid of the waste they had.

this is all i've got to say. host: thanks for calling. last week in the wall street journal, there was an op ed's by an assistant secretary of state during the bush administration. he was also the former chief of staff to senator dick lugar of indiana. his op-ed --

this was in the wall street journal last week. ray in myrtle beach, south carolina, independent line. should sequestration be allowed? caller: good morning. yes, it should. this was the deal made in 2011. do not let this president out of that deal. they gave him more spending power back then. now the cuts are coming due and he does not want to do it. when i hear stories on the news of medicaid officials, people working for the government, getting $3 million and salaries in excess of $200,000, and all the other fraud that taking

place, medicare fraud, mendez and the guy that he is tied up in florida, dr. being investigated, if it is time to cut back. -- menendez and the doctor being investigated in florida. all the medicare and everything. it will vanish if they don't do something. the money will come from somewhere. take it out of the mouths of the people getting it for nothing and stealing it, like they do with medicare fraud and all the other fraud going on. and then you would have the money. so, yes, let's all the cuts go through. host: this is one of those days in washington where there's a lot going on even if congress is not in session. at 8:00 a.m. this morning, the national prayer breakfast is happening. that will be live on c-span2.

the president will be attending the national prayer breakfast. there are several congressional hearings happening as well today, including one on the benghazi attacks. secretary leon panetta and the joint chiefs chairman general dempsey will both be at the hearing. that will be alive today on c- span. we will go to that hearing directly after the washington journal this morning. this afternoon another hearing, john brennan for cia, the senate intelligence committee. this will be live on c-span at 2:30 p.m. this afternoon. again, the national prayer breakfast begins in about 45 minutes. that will be live on c-span2, if you would like to watch that. the president will be attending and speaking there. one other hearing we want to point out, which will be live it 10:00 a.m. on c-span3 is education secretary arne duncan talking about waivers for the

"no child left behind" bill. on c- like a 10:00 a.m. span3. robert is on our republican line for seamless. should sequestration be allowed to go through? caller: hi. we were calling it the fiscal cliff. all the sudden it seems we have gone away from that and we are calling it sequestration. i thought that the whole term "fiscal cliff" came about because sequestration was part of that. the media keeps differentiating that now. host: you don't see a difference? caller: it is still sequestration, that is the fiscal cliff. that has not gone away. host: semantics aside, what would you like to see done? caller: just for the media to clarify we never really got anywhere except for slight

increase in taxes on a small number of people. it was $450 million and above. how many people actually dropped checks of? ? host: $450 million? caller: $450,000. excuse me. i don't know anybody that's actually gets a check of that amount, or maybe a bonus. i don't know. nonetheless, what about capital gains and dividend income? was that addressed? i see that some of the same as tip income. it's just a little extra from an investment someone made in their job and they get tips and after reports that as income. host: we will have to leave it there. washington post lead story this morning --

bill, we are talking about sequestration this morning. bill is in rhode island, independent line. good morning. caller: hi. [inaudible] host: i apologize. we will have to move on. you're having trouble hearing you.

in port st. lucie, florida, phil on our independent line. caller: it must go through. as other callers have said, they will not cut anything unless they are forced to. so we have to go through with sequestration. thank you. host: wall street journal lead story this morning is about the potential merger of u.s. airways and american airlines. right below that is this story dealing with john brennan.

back to your comments on sequestration, whether or not it

should be allowed to go through. a tweet -- stephen is a republican in florida. good morning. what do you think? caller: no, sequestration and

should not go through. the people on twitter don't understand the impact of sequestration. if we had a president that was a , he would of stepped up to the plate much sooner. this president is johnny-come- y.teli i am very much behind the military. this is tough on the military. people saying this thing should go through, who runs congress? i don't know what more to say. it's common sense what is going on. i'm really angry about it because i'm listening to people and they really don't understand the impact. these men are making $50,000 a year ago risked their lives. then they get a pay cut? somethingcongress do or the president?

i'm really disappointed in people around this country. host: from the hill newspaper --

that's in the hill newspaper this morning. our next call comes from new hampshire, chesterfield. this is ron, a democrat. caller: hi. thank you. before they start taking money from the poor, the sick, the elderly, from the military, they need to start getting as much money back as they can from the tens of millions of dollars in subsidies to the oil companies and other companies that do absolutely nothing but ship our jobs overseas. they don't care about us anymore over here. the president does not run the congress. give me a break. if the president, ran the congress, the congress would of been out of business three years ago. we need to get some of our money back from the do nothing congress that has done nothing but sat around and blocked

everything the president has tried to do. if this congress does not get behind this president, we will have another four years of nanking. -- of nothingness. they need to get the money from the subsidies we are giving to all of these oil companies and all these other big companies that have done nothing for us. absolutely nothing. host: thanks for calling. on facebook --

if you would like to continue the conversation on our facebook page, you can go to facebook .com/cspan. elaine is on the line. caller: sequestration should not be allowed. it will send this country into recession, probably into a depression. if we go back through history and check the facts, with each and every president, every time the country was in an economic downturn, what they did was to increase government spending. that brought the gdp up and stimulated our economy. if they look back through ronald reagan, the gop hero, as he did exactly the same thing. they can go back, check history, check the facts.

ronald reagan did it. it has always been done. then they talk about how the president has not passed a budget and the senate has not passed a budget. the president just presented a budget to congress. they did not approve it. a lot of people seem to not understand what the role of government is. congress is the legislative branch. congress is the one that write the bills and passes the bills. and the president signs them. congress wants to talk about it is the president's fault because upstanding and spending. they have been the ones that have passed this legislation. host: elaine, in washington, we will leave your comments there. in the new york times this morning is a picture of justice sonya sotomayor. she's on a book tour over the next couple months promoting our autobiography -- her autobiography. article below that.

right next to that is another article --

that is in the new york times this morning. david in arkansas, republican line. what do you think about the sequestration issue? caller: for the first time i can remember in my life, i am really worry it. i'm a lawyer in jonesboro. first, i am an american and i know the law. it is very important to be careful with what you say about any other individual that is in a profession and that has reached high ranks, such as obama.

however, [indiscernible] our country and it's not right. the problem that i think he has really got -- and in fact, if it was not for repercussions, i think some lawyers need to get together and draft a lawsuit against obama into her personal position as a person and as a representative of the united states government. they should represent the son of anwar al-aulaqi. and i would do it pro bono. because he killed that young glowlig -- that young boy. he was only 15. but host: we're getting a little off topic.

if your interested in the drone issue, you can watch c-span at 2:30 this afternoon. that is when john brennan's cia confirmation hearing will be held. that will be live on c-span. you can see it on your screen. i want to run through some political and cabinet news that is in the papers this morning. we are going to begin with an article from "politico."

now, this article was -- or is in the new york post.

from the washington post this morning -- marco rubio to deliver a state of the union gop response to the president's state of the union address next tuesday. this will be live on c-span. this article says that senator rubio will be delivering his response in both english and spanish.

back to your calls on sequestration. ilyn. caller: thanks for taking my call. i am disgusted that it has come to this, that this frustra sequestration is still hanging over our heads. i cannot believe in has been four years and they cannot seem to come to a decision on what to do. they cannot come to an agreement. as far as i'm concerned, i don't know the whole story, of course, but enlightening, the republicans have done nothing but stop and block everything that the president has tried to do. i agree with the gentleman a couple calls ago that said we need to take care of our own.

we need to bring the troops home. we need to take care of our own instead of running all over the world. i agree that there's a moral obligation to help other humans in the world, but i don't know. i agree that the oil companies -- and i'm so sick of big money in politics. anyway, i just hope and pray that they come to a decision. host:bill tweets -- more political and capcabinet

news. paul brown made it official on wednesday that he will run for retiring senator saxby chambliss' senate-seat senate- paul broun. that's in the hill newspaper as is this article --

no schedule on when that vote may take place yet. finally, obama closed to nominating pritzker for commerce. tom in washington, d.c., thanks for holding. tom is an independent. what are your thoughts about

sequestration? caller: thanks for taking my call and thanks for c-span, a great service to the country. it is disheartening to listen to all these calls from all these professionals and americans much older than myself who seem to have given up the idea of compromise. there are weeks left until sequestration needs to go through. nobody on the phone today is talking about negotiating to bring about a real resolution that both sides of the aisle can be happy with. i would be in favor of the substance of sequestration, the tax cuts and spending cuts and tax increases, excuse me, that happened in january. but we need to have discretion in how that occurs particularly with the military. it is disheartening that we cannot try to get around making that happen now as opposed to just fighting about whether sequestration should occur ases is.

host: do you work in politics? caller: not really. i worked on the hill briefly, but i worked in finance. host: pete is on the republican in new york. caller: i think it should go through. i have not heard one caller talked about when bush was in office if we had a deficit of $450 billion a year. the senate has not budgeted anything. they have not come up with a budget plan. harry reid and the democrats. they want to put blame on the tim -- put blame all the time, puts the blame on them. our deficit now is 1.5 trillion dollars. it's three times the amount. if we don't start cutting now and worrying about our country, we will not have a debate anymore, we will not have a country left. all these geniuses.

let's start cutting fraud of all these illegals collecting all fair and food stamps in my state. let's start cutting that. there are many things we can cut. but nobody wants to do anything. we're going to go down with the ship. host: on twiter -- we already have read these. i apologize. if you would like to continue the conversation on sequestration, you can go to our facebook page. there is a lively conversation going on. that will continue throughout the day. a couple more articles before we get to some of our gas segments. obama chooses and environmentalists executive for the interior. there's a picture of president obama and sally jewell, nominated to be secretary of the interior.

here's the front page of the state newspaper out of columbia, south carolina. it says that james cliburn would make a great transportation secretary. the boston globe this morning, the lead story --

that's the lead story this morning in the boston globe. finally, i want to point out this an op-ed by the chairman of the energy and commerce committee, a republican of michigan. this is in the washington times. we can do better for the most vulnerable among us and republicans have offered proposals to improve health care by removing washington's stranglehold on flexibility if by states encouraging innovation to provide better services for the poor and disabled. that is just a portion of that are bed this morning.

coming up, we are going to turn to the immigration issues. deepak bhargava of the center for community change met with the president, with a group yesterday to discuss immigration reform. he will be joining us to take your calls. we will talk about that meeting. after that, senator jeff flake, a republican of arizona, part of a bipartisan group to look at immigration reform, that's one issue and if we will discuss with the newly elected senator. washington journal continues in a moment. >> ♪ [video clip] >> what i have discovered as i've gotten older and more mature is that is the worst strategy to achieve happiness is in life is to make that your

primary goal. you probably would not achieve it. you would end up being narcissistic and self involved, caring about your own pleasures and your own satisfaction in life as your paramount goal. when i have found is that happiness is best thought of as a byproduct of other things. it's a byproduct of meaningful work and family and friends and good health and love and care. we get happiness not by aiming directly for it but by throwing ourselves into projects and involving ourselves in and try to have integrity and being a good person. >> the whole foods co-founder nco examines how the inherent good of business and capitalism can lead to a better world. sunday night at 9:00 on c-span2.

find more online and like us on facebook. [video clip] >> if you go to most american history textbooks, i would make you a bet that if you go to the back of the textbooks you had in high school, my bet with you is in your american history textbook in high school, if you go to the index, you will find no mention of eugenics. if you go to your biology books in high school, you would find no mention of the word. i just looked at biology books a signed by most of the courses for an introductory biology at penn state university. great textbooks, but i did not see any mention of eugenics. it is as if we scientists no longer believe in it, that we don't have to think about it.

it is as if we historians, because we know it was so awful, that we can pretend it was not part of american culture. >> part of lectures in history, saturday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span3. washington journal continues. host: now joining us is deepak bhargava, executive director for the center of community change, to talk about immigration reform and the immigration process. what is the center for community change? guest: it is a national organization that helps build grass-roots organizations in low-income neighborhoods to tackle issues like poverty and rights for immigrants, affordable housing, to make sure low-income people are able to fully participate in american life. host: how are you funded and when were you formed? guest: >> 1968 as a living memorial to robert kennedy after his death. to support neighborhood based community initiatives to address

problems in poor neighborhoods. funded by foundations and individuals and governments. host: what was the meeting about with the president yesterday and what did you discuss and what conclusions did you come into? guest: the president called us together to talk about common sense immigration reform. his view is that the time is now to finally get over the finish line in this party that is so essential for our country. he talked about how the political conditions were right because of massive participation of latinos and asians constituents. and how the issue is so critical for immigrants and for a whole country, for the economy and future success. he expressed this was going to be one of his top priorities in 2013 to get it done. host: how would you like to see immigration reform the current? -- occur? guest: the core element is to

provide a path to citizenship for aspiring americans, to enable the 11 million people who work hard and live in the shadows to come forward, to achieve legal status, and after an amount of time to become full citizens. a second very important issue is what we call family unification, to enable people who have loved ones that they a been waiting to reunite with from all over the world, sometimes for 20 years, to be able to reunite and bring those family members to the u.s. host: there's a group of bipartisan senators working on this same issue. from what you have read and what have seen of their proposal, is there room for them and the president to get together? guest: i think so. the good news is that it appears after just saying no, a group of republican senators have come forward to say they support a path to citizenship. that's a breakthrough.

however, the devil is in the details. we have serious concerns about the specific provisions the senators appear to be putting together. we're just at the principal stage. for example, they are proposing to condition the path to citizenship on the border been declared secure. it's not clear by whom. the border has already been strengthened dramatically. there have been massive investment and we don't think there should be any roadblocks on the path to citizenship. we have concerns about the details, but we're very positive that there appears to be for momentum. host: why would a secure border near roadblock? guest: we already have a secure border. there is zero net newt illegal immigration to the united states. -- zero net new illegal immigration. there's been a lot of money spent on enforcement. this is now talking point as

opposed to good public policy. we cannot abbas situation where the governor of arizona is in a position to veto the beginning of a path to citizenship because she exporter is not yet secure enough. so we cannot keep moving the goalposts on this. this is the right thing to do for the country. host: a republican senat congressperson spoke about immigration yesterday. [video clip] >> what we cannot become is a nation where the laws are enforced selectively or not at all. what we cannot become is a country where the laws apply to some of the people some of the time. the president from time to time says that he wants a country where everyone plays by the same rules. with respect, they are not called rules in this country, they are called laws.

each of us takes an oath to enforce them, even those we disagree with. when the laws are applied in an uneven way, if we see the erosion of the foundation upon which to this republic was built. make no mistake, one may benefit from the noncompliance or non- enforcement of a lot, that same person will be clamoring to have that law enforced in another capacity. so we seek to harmonize two foundational precepts. number one is humanity. member two is respect for the rule of law. host: deepak bhargava? guest: i disagree with much of what the congressman said. his ending statement about the balance of humanity and the rule of law is a good starting point for the discussion. in an earlier speech, the congressman eloquently spoken to the need to bring human decency, our values as a nation of immigrants into the debate. i think what you are seeing among many republicans is a bit

of schizophrenia. a recognition that the position of the party must change if it is to keep pace with the changing face of america, but changing demographics and changing political realities. they also face problems within their own constituency. there's a hard core that is dramatically opposed immigration reform. even in his comments preceded both positions pulling themselves out. host: deepak bhargava is our guest, center for community change being organization. immigration reform is the issue. the numbers are on the screen /political affiliation at our usual numbers. if we set aside a fourth line this morning for illegal immigrants. 202-585-3883. we would like to hear from you about this whole immigration debate going on in washington. of whot keep records calls in, so this is not the

entrapment or anything like that. we just want to hear your story. we have done this many times before on the show. it's usually very interesting to hear their point of view. on twiter -- guest: no one, not the president, not anyone in congress has proposed amnesty. what is being proposed an current path to citizenship. that means there would be a process people have to go through. background checks would likely also included kind of fine and they would pay taxes and register. and it would get in line to eventually become permanent residents and citizens. it's not a short line. so it is not amnesty. people adapt to go through a rigorous process to get through it. host: are the needs of arizona

the same as those for iowa when it comes to immigration reform and border security? guest: they're not. one thing i would say is that the whole country in certain sectors actually does need immigrant labor. we have seen a huge crisis in agriculture sector, for example. the farms in iowa and farms in california and florida where the crops are out in the field for a lack of. a situation where employers, but employers trying to comply with the law are competing against unscrupulous employers who use undocumented labor to pages and that undercuts labor wages for all american workers. this is a national problem. the border situation has changed dramatically over the last two years. our border has almost become militarized. janet napolitano has been down securityhe homeland securit

secretary. i think the conditions in arizona have been vastly exaggerated by some of the politicians there for political gain. host: the first call from seattle. caller: good morning, c-span. i do not believe there should be any form of amnesty. the legislation they are proposing amounts to nothing more than amnesty. if they can not enforce employers hiring illegal immigrants, how can they enforce people getting to the back of the line, paying back taxes? we have 12 million americans out of work, and those taking our

jobs for slave wages -- they want to make it easier for them. once these people are given legal status, they will be able to bring in other family members which means more jobs taken away from americans. guest: curtis, i have to say that i disagree with you. immigration has been a strength for the united states. we are a nation of immigrants that bring patriotism, entrepreneurship -- immigration is a net economic boom for the united states, not a drain on the economy. moreover, it is important to say that all of the various proposals that have been circulated, the president's and the proposals in the senate, do call for a new system called e-

verify, which would check all workers against a national database and there clearly is a need to bring 11 million people out of the shadow. the human toll of the separation of families that happens with our immigration system where there is almost no legal mechanism for people to immigrant -- immigrate to the united states, it is something we have to change. host: mark is a republican in pennsylvania. caller: i want to make two statements. i was watching c-span two, and that e-verify is broken also, plus many other things. number two, the republicans should not fall for this. these people keep thinking that

these people are not here making anchor babies. in the future, if they get this amnesty going through, and that is exactly what it is, there will not be a republican ever across the united states ever elected again. they want the democratic party to be the sole beneficiary of this. if you go across this country, you can see the damage that this has done to all of the inner cities, the towns. i live in a well-known mennonite area, and they are coming up here. why? pennsylvania welcomes them with open arms, will not turn them in to immigration, and i will tell you one thing -- it will lead to either a race war or a revolution.

host: mark, we got your point. let's get your response from deepak bhargava. guest: that call illustrates that there are deep anxieties about immigration and the changing face of america. in a few short years this will be a color nation. part of the republican stance is shaped by the election results were an overwhelming number of latinos voted for the president. there clearly is no path for a political party that is not willing to speak to the needs and concerns of the entire population. the anxiety that you see, we see younger americans much more supportive of a path to citizenship, older americans

less willing to see that happen -- this is part and parcel of the change we are going through as a country. the president's point, that we cannot think of this as them against us is critical. we are all american, this is part of our tradition and this legislation would renew and continue that tradition. host: darnell, waldorf, maryland. go ahead. caller: it really is about cheaper labor. i am a construction worker, and i know they love hiring cheaper labor immigrants because they do not have to follow safety rules, whereas normal citizens will stand up for their rights. employers do not like that, you know what i am saying? they want to do whatever is cheap and "efficient."

when they talk about immigrants are more patriotic for america, are we not america? are you saying we are not patriotic? once we start standing up for each other, then you are a problem. immigrants need to be treated fine, detection from the law, but to have this amnesty program, and i am a democrat, but that is exactly what is, and amnesty program to undercut labor cost. >> 1 -- guest: 1.2 make is a system -- one point for the caller, the immigration system we have is that for all of america. it is bad for american workers because the system of

undocumented labor creates a mechanism where unscrupulous employers can lower the wages and working conditions of everybody. immigration reform is good for all records precisely because it levels the playing field. host: gary tweet in -- the reason the immigration has stalled is because there are no jobs. when the economy improves and unemployment is 4.5%, watch the flood. guest: actually, that is not true. the conditions that began after nafta was enact it in the mid-- 19 90s, those conditions have changed dramatically. the economy certainly is a factor, but it is also true that conditions in sending countries are also changing dramatically. host: robert in tucson, arizona.

good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. host: go ahead, we are listening. caller: i said good morning, qa for taking my call -- thank you for taking my call. i am actually a legal resident, from sweden. i grew up here with my sister and my parents, and my sister went back to sweden to help take care of my mother, but we never became american citizens should my sister wants -- citizens. my sister wants to come back, and has a college degree, and i think it is absurd to give negative treatment to people that are hard-working, taxpaying residents.

talk about compassion, there seems to be very little compassion in the immigration system already. i am not sure it is relevant to the issue at hand. guest: the caller is right about one thing, the legal immigration system in this country is broken. people assume that people are choosing to become undocumented immigrants in the united states. in effect, we no longer have a working line to get into. there are backlogs for some people that are 10, 15, 20 years long. a big solution is to fix the legal immigration system, and we have a tradition we need to uphold, the notion of family migration -- the idea that workers come in families, that our communities are strengthened

when families are able to be together and united. a big piece of this debate will have to be to solve problems like the caller talked about and make sure there is a real functional way for people to emigrate to the united states. host: deepak bhargava, how did you get involved in the work you do? guest: yeah. i am an immigrant myself from india. my family immigrated from the , and my -- 1960's motivation is deeply personal. it rises out of my sense of generosity, the goodness of this country and wanting to see it thrive and prosper. host: why did your family come over? guest: they came for a better life, employment opportunities. they are both scientists.

as for many immigrants, the were not sure they would stay, but they fell in love and became citizens. host: where did you grow up? guest: i grew up in new york city, the bronx, a multiracial neighborhood that introduced me to the idea that a diverse society is unique and embraces all people around the world. host: in your view, does the so- called high-tech work visas need to be overhauled? guest: the increasing number of visas for workers in science, technology and math, stem workers, as there has been

silicon valley employers that say we do not have enough of those folks, and those that are forced to leave after they are educated here, which makes no sense. host: this tweet -- common sense immigration reform starts with a double armed wire fence with towers and dogs. the next call comes from rob in edgewater, maryland. caller: thank you. i am green party, but there is not a line for green party. you mentioned nafta in the and's, and in the 1990's the early-2000's, there was a push to break labor unions and a great push for the war on drugs.

if you accumulate all of these things, the war on drugs, the breaking of the labor unions, what we have done is created a permanent underclass. of course they want to run here. it is a war zone in those countries, and in this country the wages for average workers -- the one percent are at the top, and the 99% have been struggling along. if people had decent wages, they would not mind more immigration , but the fact is we have not looked out for our own. some at the top want more to come in to keep the underclass of lower paid workers while the rest of us stay the same or sink. guest: the caller is right. we need a genetically different economic paradigm that is good

for all workers, immigrant workers, native born workers, everybody, and we need an aggressive plan to create jobs. the discussions about the deficit are misguided because this is a time to choose a path other than what europe has chosen, to invest in america and infrastructure to get the economy moving again. secondly, we need a system to change labor standards, so that people have the right to form unions, which has been almost eliminated, higher minimum wage laws, and a system of support for people to have mobility in education. the caller is right that we need an economic agenda and immigration is part of the agenda if we do it right, creating a pathway for legal migration.

host: sandy beach tweets in -- do you support the demand that the word illegal be used not to describe immigrants during hearings? guest: i do. i believe the world -- the word illegal is demeaning. we should do for to them as undocumented immigrants. these are overwhelmingly good people that want to make a contribution, want to take care of their families, love and improve their country, and we should use language that reflects the character of the people we are talking about. host: tj? guest: tweets how are you legals working without it 6 -- social security number? guest: employees and employers under the current system, have

come up with a lot of ways to get around the requirements. people do use false documents to get employment. often, employers anticipate actively in that system. the solution to the problem is to create a pathway for people to come out of the shadows, pay taxes, interviewed to our country, -- contribute to our country. host: bill tweets in, blocking immigration reform is a losing issue for the tea party house. i hope they never realize it so that in 2014 democrats can gain control. rob is in kansas. caller: i. tweets how are-- hi. great. thank you for being with us today. i am calling to bring up an issue i am glad you were able to bring up and is not covered as often as he -- it should, and that is the families torn

apart in this broken system. you touched on this. the mothers and the fathers that have to raise children with their spouses away, or the children that cry because their parent is forced away from them. i was wondering if you could speak about a way to keep families together in comprehensive immigration reform, and what you think those issues are. guest: it is important for people to understand that over the last four or five years, we have had a record level of deportation, 1.5 million people have been deported, and what that means in human terms is that there are us citizen kids that worry every day about whether their mom or dad will come home from work at night. it means the dream act young people that were offered a path to temporary legal status last year, they worry about their family members.

will their families remained intact? our current system means that there are millions of people that have been waiting years and years, separated from spouses, parents and other loved ones because there is no legal system. it means that lb gt, by national couples, they are not allowed to be in the united states if one is outside the country. family unity needs to underlie how we approach this immigration issue. host: deepak bhargava is our guest. his organization is called the center for community change. he is the executive director. mac in birmingham, alabama, republican line. caller: good morning. i am tired of americans feeling that we are entitled to what we

have. we are lucky to be born here instead of picked to be born here, and i would hate to look at my child if i was an illegal and see that immigration -- the disk in the nation. i was -- discrimination. i was wondering, for those that believe in god, what if god asked for a green card? guest: that is a beautiful comment. there are massive efforts to embrace the issue of commonsense immigration reform, and it is exactly for the reason the caller stated -- the biblical imperative to welcome strangers , love thy neighbor, the notion that we are all connected as a single fabric of humanity -- those values, those deep faith

traditions need to inform this debate, and the divisive rhetoric of them and us -- this is a country of immigrants. almost everybody has an ancestor or relative that came here somehow and we need to remember that as we think about reforming our current system. host: matt beets in an illegal immigrant is someone that violated the law. how is that not illegal? guest: it is true that people broke the law by coming into the united states, or by overstaying a visa, but it is not the content of those people. these are hard-working folks, trying to feed their families, trying to make sure there is a path forward for their children. these are good, hard-working decent people just like everybody else who deserve a path forward. to call them illegal immigrants

is to narrow in on one part of who they are and not recognize their humanity, giving people an excuse to ignore the content of their character. host: mike is in alexandria, virginia. guest: there is talk of many factors except one, the us crossed mexico's border and took their territory by force. americans believe they are entitled to that territory. a lot of the comments are jingoistic, that this country was founded on values and we apply those to our borders. what about the consideration that we have people from mexico saying you crossed our borders,

we did not cross yours? you border crossed us, i should say. thank you. host: any comments, mr. bhargava? >> -- guest: it is important to remember that the us is embedded in a world economic system and migration has always been a part of what human beings decide to do. if you look at a country like japan that has essentially said we will not let anyone in, you see a country that is getting older, where the economy is sinking, and as our country ages demographically it will be critical to welcome and allow in younger people from around the world to build and power the economy and to make sure we

have a workforce that can really deliver for the 21st century. the caller's point that we are in a world system, not just the united states and its quarters, is correct. host: reminder to our callers, if you are any legal immigrant and want to participate, we would like to hear your point of view. shorty tweets in -- the gop wanted their cake and eat it too, cheaper foreign labor for corporations and a big rebel yell against immigration at election time. debbie. caller: one of the issues i never here is many undocumented workers are not just working here, but they are using social security numbers to get credit. to undocumented workers use my husband's social, and we are still battling with this. we were in washington, dc, on this issue, and i helped to write a bill, an amendment to

the current tax code that sits in the house make sure we have a workforce that can really deliver because nobody is dealing with the fraudulent use of social security numbers, and our lives are ruined. these illegals are still living in illinois, getting credit and using other people's social. host: debbie, what would you like to see done? caller: i would like to see hr-1538 get off the floor. i would like to see lenders and the illegals that have used social security numbers not just to work but to get fraudulent home loans, that they cannot have a pathway to citizenship because once that happens, what will happen to their debt? my husband now has three home foreclosures that are associated with his social security number,

and we cannot erase those. host: debbie, we got the point. deepak bhargava, are you familiar with that bill, first of all? guest: i am not familiar with that legislation, but i want to say that all americans are worse off because we do not have a better system. what commonsense immigration reform is all about is making sure everybody can come forward , get legal status, pay taxes, contribute to society, that they are not subject to exploitation and abuse at the workplace. i think the underlying point is that undocumented immigration is bad for the whole country in all kinds of ways and the solution to the problem has to be to bring people forward. host: do you know the limits on legal immigration?

guest: it varies year by year, but there are very low levels of immigration legally for work purposes for all kinds of different sectors -- high-tech, agricultural, etc., which is why we have a large undocumented population in the us because we do not have enough pieces for people that want to come to the united states legally in sectors that they are needed. employers have been recruiting in bringing workers to the united states, -- have been bringing in and recruiting workers in the united states and benefiting from the system, and it would be better to bring that system out of the shadow so that workers are protected. host: did you get any pieces for people that want to come to the united states

indication from the president that he would be willing -- does he want to look at this comprehensively or would he be willing to look at this piecemeal? guest: the president was clear that he thinks we need to solve the whole immigration problem. you cannot take one small piece aired we have to clear the family backlog, all the people waiting in line to come to the united states to reunite with a loved one. we have to deal with the undocumented population, picture there is a pathway to citizenship, creating this e- verify system, making sure there is no profiling of people with hispanic or foreign-sounding surnames. he made the case that we have to deal with this all together so that we do not have this album in 15 or 20 -- problem in 15 or 20 years. indication fromhost: build in po ahead.

caller: in the phoenix area, our copy values went down 40% -- property values went down 40%. most of it is about educating undocumented immigrant children , and we are almost forced to sell our property because we are not going to be able to live the american dream. the other question i have is nobody is saying anything about the hispanic population on the south side of the border that has been murdered, something like 35 million in the last year or so, and a lot of it with guns sold by our administration. it is amazing that mexico has the most stringent gun laws in the world, yet 35,000 mexicans have lost their lives along the border. i would like to have mr. deepak bhargava explained while we are

making a move to take guns away from united states citizens, what would have changed in mexico with some of those families would have guns to protect themselves. guest: one major cause for the violence in mexico that we have seen over the last few years has been illegal drug trade, and the demand demand of those drugs is significantly north of the border here -- and the demand for those drugs is significantly north of the border, here in the united states. it is not clear to me that the solution in mexico to the problem of violence is to flood the country with more guns. many of those guns have come from the united states and there is a good argument that fewer guns would make that problem better, not worse. host: palisades park, new

jersey, independent line. go ahead with your comments for our guest deepak bhargava. caller: thank you. host: you need to turn down the volume. just listen through your telephone. caller: i would like to say thank you for having me. i was watching the man on immigration, and this immigration reform in 1986 was amnesty, and people are still here since then because they were not able to apply at that time and missed the opportunity. they left the country and then came back and applied for amnesty, as some of them do not have good proof. too many people are here for a long time, and they will not affect american jobs because

american people do not want to do these kinds of jobs -- labor jobs, gas station jobs, so i would like to say thank you to mr. president obama, as he did something for the child. he was thinking for other people also. we need immigration reform right now. it is good for the economy and everything. host: where are you from originally? guest: i, sir. host: thank you for calling in -- i, sir -- india, sir. host: thank you for calling. guest: we have millions of immigrants that have dug deep

into the society, have children , have done essential work for the society, love the country and want to be fully part of it. the moral test of this debate is do we ensure that there is a real, clear and fair path to citizenship and the country would be stronger for it. host: i want to read three final tweaks, and we will interview this with senator jeff flake. michelle says the us ability to integrate immigrants into our social fabric used to be one of our strongest attributes, said to see the theater. what difference does citizenship make when illegals are treated like special guest, and james said no chance the democrats are going to make any deal that improves the way hispanics view republicans. our guest has been deepak bhargava, executive director of

the center for community change. we appreciate your time, and o'connor say nothing on immigration will continue with the newly -- our conversation will continue on immigration with newly elected -- reelected senator jeff flake after this news update from c-span radio. host: the center -- >> the center for american progress, a think tank with reportedly close ties to the white house, has a plan to provide the school for all children within five years, providing pre-and to garden programs -- prekindergarten programs. meanwhile, the education secretary arnie duncan will testify this morning on no child left behind waivers. live coverage at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span three. white house officials say the

president will make early childhood education a priority in his second term but it is not clear if he will outline a prekindergarten plan during the state of the union address. job creation and the economy are on the president agenda, and today the president meets with democrats on their annual retreat in virginia where the white house says the scope policies will be the top priority. the president's choice to lead the cia appears at his, and -- nomination hearing where the us drone program is expected to be a focus of questioning. lawmakers are expected to receive a classified report providing rationale for drone strikes targeting americans working over seas. john brennan helped to manage the program. here live coverage of john brennan's testimony at 2:30 p.m. eastern on c-span radio, or watch the confirmation hearing

live on c-span. >> there is no prescription or role model, or cookbook for being first lady, and if you look back at the lives of martha washington or abigail adams, or dolly madison, or donna roosevelt, or that truman , you can see that each woman has defined the role in a way that is true to herself -- how she can help her husband, take care of her family, make her contribution to our nation. >> c-span's new original series -- "first ladies, influence and image." season one begins presidents' day, and if you are 18.

-- february 18. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us is senator jeff flake, and republican of arizona elected last year to his first term in the senate. i do not know if you heard any of the conversation with deepak bhargava about immigration, but he met with the president yesterday. your group, have you started forming your bipartisan group efforts into legislation? guest: that is happening this month. that is the difficult part, putting principles into legislation. some items have been done before and you could use them as a template, but these principles contained new things. that is a difficult part, obviously. i think everyone is working in good faith. we stand a far better chance now

than we have before. host: when you say new things -- such as? guest: the path to citizenship. there have been pieces of legislation that have been done, like the strive act, where somebody would need to pay back taxes, and a touchback division of going back to your home country and register. that is not here, but it still provides fines for people that are in the back of the line, but to say that it provides amnesty, that is not the pardon for the breach of law that is the proper definition of amnesty. this is not a parting -- pardon. host: from what you have read and seen about the president's proposal is there anything in there that is a nonstarter?

guest: there are things the president left out. you mentioned what are some of the new things, and on the other side is border security. we need to make sure that people who live on the border in particular, and i am in touch frequently with ranchers that hold property there, and one rancher has had 29 incursions across his property, and these are trucks humming across the burner -- border -- coming across the border, mostly with drugs, since the month of may. we need to do work to make sure that individual property holders and community leaders have some input as to what constitutes a secure border. the president left that out, as he did a temporary worker program on the backside. that has to be in this

legislation as well. host: senator flake, are the public's faith in arizona the same as indiana, or in the dakota -- are the problems arizona faces the same as india or north dakota? i would say the same or more. there are additional issues. host: you were quoted this morning as saying senator marco rubio is key on immigration. why? guest: he is new to the senate, two years, not as new as i am, but he has a perspective that others do not. he is from florida. he is hispanic. he is an articulate voice on the subject that can unify republicans.

i do not think there is anyone in the party right now that speaks to opportunity and inclusiveness like marco rubio does. i think he is the linchpin in this effort, and you have seen him talk to conservative idea about immigration in a way that the rest of us cannot. host: now that you have moved on the other side of the capital, after spending 12 years in the house, how do you read the house when it comes to immigration? guest: there are still a lot of people that do not want to deal with this issue, but i think everyone wants to see it in the rearview mirror. if we could get it done, it would certainly help. i am not under any illusion that on the political side that if we do this 50% of the hispanic vote will come our way. that will not be the case for a while, but we should do this

for policy reasons and good politics will follow thereafter. this is an important thing to do, has been for a while and it is overdue. host: senator flake, who are the members of your group? guest: chuck schumer, dick durbin, michael bennet, myself, john mccain, michael rubio, lindsey graham, and, i think, that is it, unless i missed one. bob menendez, i am sorry. host: do you have more that want to join the effort at this point? guest: not specifically that want to join, but there are those sympathetic and when they see the legislation, we think they will come on board. we hope that once they see what is required for someone to advance status and get on a

path toward citizenship, they will say it comports with the rule of law, it is humane and realistic and something we have to do. host: do you have folks on the house side working with you? guest: there is a bipartisan group over there that is trying to fashion some legislation as well. people like role labrador, louise bluebeard -- luis gutierrez and many others. they are getting closer to something like the senate is doing, and that certainly helps. host: senator jeff flake is our guest, republican of arizona. we have put our phone lines up. we have set aside the fourth line for illegal immigrants. we would like to hear your story, and we begin with a caller on that line. alex in germantown, maryland.

caller: good morning. i am not a legal myself, my mother is. -- e legal myself, i mother is. she came here to put me through college and raise our living standards. she had a difficult time trying to legalize their status and it has been dragging on for about 10 years. she applied, spent a lot of money on lawyers and application fees as the paperwork is not exactly cheap. she has been denied, has had to appeal and reapply, and basically she has been doing everything she can. i am a student, on a student visa, and i have kept my visa for the last 10 years and it has not been easier for me either. in my own experience i have found that the people that can

get in line and enter the process, at least from where i come from, are people that already have high reading standards and do not need it, and in many cases -- living standards, and do not need it, and in many cases do not want it. the problem we have is people that would benefit the most would be denied, and the people that do have the opportunity, they in many cases do not want it. i have talked to many people who have a green card and they only come here every two years for a week or two so they do not lose here.ause they do notik it is not easy to come here were people, a -- speak a different language and have different backgrounds. people who come here and are willing to come here are people

having a difficult time living at home, and they either escape violence, or they are trying to escape poverty. host: alex, thank you for sharing your story. guest: thank you, alex, who brings up a point that has been made in a series of articles. the notion that everyone is here wants to become a citizen, that is simply not the case. in the case of one country, mexico, only 36% of those offered a path to citizenship actually take it. under the 1986 amnesty, it was under 40%, when this amnesty was easier than the package we are talking about now. a lot of people do want to

become citizens, and they're all to be a pathway where they can come -- or ought to be a pathway they can come out of the shadows without fear of deportation or turned away at work. that is what we are after. host: eric, pensacola florida. -- pensacola, florida. caller: i used to be a resident of tucson, and i have followed senator flake, and both of you keep using this path to immigration or citizenship, it is called naturalization. is there a process called naturalization, and is there a way to become americans? you do not have a right to become american. we should be very selective. the other guest who is trying to say people saying we do not

like illegal immigration and illegal in the -- illegals, that is stupid and ignorant. mr. flake, i am disappointed that you are going along with marco rubio who has voted for the reauthorization of the patriot act. i've met him. he is like joe scarborough. host: eric, we got your point. let's get a response. guest: with regard to a path to citizenship or naturalization, there are some that generally think that people who have broken a law to get here should never be on the path to citizenship. under current law, the provider here illegally can go -- under current law, people that are here illegally can go home, then wait and get on a path. if you are here illegally and

would like to get on a path, we are saying, forward, get out of the shadows, get a provisional status but you would have to pay back taxes, and learn english just to get a green card under this package, and then wait for everyone that is currently in the line to get through the line. if somebody is going to be here 20 or 30 years, i want them to have the prospect of becoming a citizen. i think that is good, not a bad thing. host: senator flake, we reduce the rights figured in? guest: arizona has been frustrated wh e slow pace of reform at the federal level so arizona has tried to put forward their own laws to enforce federal laws. it is difficult because the

border is obviously controlled the federal government as is most labor law. there is a limit to what this eight can do. -- what the state can do. that is why lawmakers in arizona are trying to get their legislation through. host: jacksonville, florida. ask your question or make your statement for senator flake. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i want to state that basically i am speaking for the hispanic community, and i want to state that we have made a huge contribution to the economy and the culture of the united states. we are not a threat. we come here willing, with hopes

and dreams, and we work and pave the way for our children and our children's children so that they can achieve what we were not able to achieve. we come here as every immigrant who ever came here, with hope. we are not here as a threat. of course, there are bad people in every culture, but the majority of hispanics are not a threat to america, and it seems that too many americans that is what we appear to be. host: are you a citizen? guest: i am a legal citizen, and when my parents came to this country in the 1950 us, it was a

different game. -- 1950's, it was a different game. we all became citizens. if republicans want to win the election, i have news for you. it has to be a change of heart, not just as 1950 senator john mn says, election, election, election, because in the grand who thinks -- any immigrant who thinks that is all they care about will not change the future. host: we got the point. let's get a response from senator flake. guest: thank you. in the case of john mccain, he is been working for immigration reform long before this last election. she makes a great point about those who come here working hard and for the most part wanting the best for their families. that is what people have asked -- what rodney to this table?

-- what brought me to this table? one, i am from arizona. i grew up on a farm, working alongside mostly migrant labor there, and i saw how hard they worked to make a live -- life better for their family. i cannot place all of those that cross the border illegally in the same criminal class. i think the vast majority of those that have come across that are undocumented here now simply wanted that are life, and i think we stand to benefit. we benefited them, and we benefit as well. host: entrée is in pensacola, florida. -- andre is in pensacola, florida.

caller: i appreciate you taking my call and the senator being part of the discussion. something to put on the table -- republicans and people that move their hatred against immigrants, they do not pay the price that we are paying. it hurts everyone that does not have documents, to call them illegal, it puts everyone against the people that serve them the best. i know people that paid the ultimate price. life changes with expectations. i have kids. i have four american children. host: were they born in the us? caller: yes. host: you said you were out of status? caller: that means we come here

with a visa, then we get into a mode that is out of status. we do not have legal status, and there is no way under the current law to be legal. we do our best. we pay taxes, when we buy a car, we pay up to 30%. it is very hard with the rhetoric from republicans, the flip-flop from john mccain, the hatred coming from romney, it hurts our part. we do our best, take our children to school, and they pledge allegiance to the flag. host: where are you from originally? caller: i am from brazil. host: when you hear the term

living in the shadows, are you familiar with that? caller: it is true about our situation. you cannot call the sheriff. we cannot call him to come to our home because there is a threat of arresting you. in my county, it has been a place where immigrants can not put their face on the street. another point that i want to make -- host: we have to leave it there. let's hear what the senator has to say. guest: entrée is in a class that a lot of people do not realize, those that have come and legally over-stayed a visa. 40% did not sneak across the border. they came legally and have over- stayed. we need better documentation of entry and exit.

he talks about hatred that is out there. i think there is less of that than people think. people in arizona are often cast that way because arizona has been trying to deal with the problem the federal government has failed at. i see less of the hatred then some people do. people want the rule of law and want us to do something about this massive problem that we have. the biggest problem is the law does not recognize the reality that is out there, and andre has kids here that our citizens. many have ties that bind and it is a difficult and complex situation, maybe more so than is realized. we need law that reflects reality and will bring back the rule of law, but when you say republicans have hatred or

whatever, i do not buy it. host: using andre is the example, how does your legislation -- do you see it benefiting or -- how does it affect andre? guest: if he has not committed a felony -- those with a felony will not be allowed to have provisional status and hope to stay, but if they have not committed crimes, he would be given provisional status and his children are already citizens, so there is no need their. he would be here for five or six years, and then he could come out of the shadows and would not have the fear of calling law enforcement if there was an issue at his home or anything else.

that is what we are trying to do, get people out of the shadows and not worry about deportation. those that have committed crimes, they should worry about deportation. we really want to bring people out of the shadows and have legislation that becomes a law that reflects reality, is compassionate and respect the rule of law. host: what is your view of the maricopa county sheriff? guest: in arizona we have a difficult situation where we face problems that others do not and i am not going to fault local officials for trying to deal with a problem we have failed to deal with in washington. host: mark, for dona, kansas -- ferdonia, kansas, you are on with senator jeff flake. caller: i actually had a

question for the earlier guest, but i would like to hear your comments. i always hear the system is broken. is it really broken, or does it take too much time in people do not want to take the time to you that? with respect to laws, we are a nation of laws and if we pick and choose which to enforce and keep, we are not able -- nation of laws anymore. we need to protect that. a final comment, if our nation is going to go down into troubles, i would rather be standing on the side of being conservative and holding some lines and not be reelected and go down in history books as having taken a stand rather than going down in history books as getting along. host: thank you, mark.

let's get a response from the senator. guest: you mentioned that laws are broken, and i would argue that they are. in 1986, amnesty was passed. 3 million people that were here you legally were offered a path to citizenship, and 40% took it. a law passed in 1986 was not complete. if we make those who are here illegally now legal, we saw all the labor problems. it did not solve it. in 1986, it was out of date. we had additional labor needs that are not contemplated. the promises that were made about security border after that were ignored because we needed more labor. the federal government let it

go. that is why we have the big problem we have today. that is why the law-legislation has to include a temporary worker program that is sufficient to account for our labor needs. for the low skill and high-tech side -- low-tech and high-tech side. we have a broken system. the first order of business is to pass realistic legislation, which we can force. host: a tweet -- guest: we have a lot of people who are waiting who have gone through the legal process. we should not allow those who have come here illegally to jump in line. that is what was done in 1986.

that is the definition of amnesty. it will take a while. we could expedite those who are coming in now legally and shorten that line, but for somebody who is here illegally now and who wants to take the path to citizenship if this legislation were to pass, i would think that it would take 10 or 15 years for them to advance in become a citizen and have those responsibilities and rights that come with it. it is a long process. it is possible. caller: good morning. i am married to a u.s. citizen. my kids are citizens. i owned two houses. one of them is not paid for yet.

when i came, i came on a visa. it was my fiance's visa. i got married after 10 months. when i got here, we did not get married, because she went back to her ex-boyfriend. she left me out of the house. when i got married to my wife who is a u.s. citizen, they told me to leave the country i cannot leave at the time. i had just bought my first house. i had my first kid. they told me i had to wait 10 years. that is why i stayed. i have been here more than 15 years.

my kids are all grown up. they are doing good. i am doing fine. i have no problem. my father died back home. i could not go because i am illegal. if i go back, i have to wait 10 years. host: we have the specifics of your story. guest: this is a case people will take a position and say we cannot let anybody who is here illegally stay. they have to go home for 10 years. friends of jose may say that he is a special case. he has a great family. he is doing what he should. he is contributing to the economy. he is a special case. there are a lot of special cases

out there when you look at this. he points out the complexity of this problem. it is a long path towards censorship. i should at every time that those who are here and wish to stay and get on that path will come out of the shadows immediately and have legal status so they will not have to live and the shadows anymore. these are complex and jubilations. what happens-these are complex situations. if you know -- these are complex situations. if you know someone in this situation, you tend to stick-you tend to height -- you tend to feel differently. host: what has been the reaction from the conservative wing of your party? guest: it has been a better reaction then it was a few years ago.

i have been to this rodeo before. in arizona, we have a border situation that we need to solve. that is why i am excited about this. for the first time, we will have leverage to make sure border security secured--border security happens. the u.s. sector accounts for 88 miles of our border. we have operational control. what that means is if someone crosses illegally, we have a reasonable expectation of catching them. we do not have a reasonable way of enforcing that in tucson. if we could make the tucson sector look like the in the sector, we could advance and will this legislation. it can be done, but it has not been done yet. we have people on the border who have suffered through this for a long time, particularly over the

last couple of years with drugs and human smuggling. i am excited that this legislation offers the possibility to have a commission that has real input as to what a secure border means. it is not a way to stop this legislation or stop someone on the path to citizenship. it is leverage to ensure we secure the border. host: crist weeks and -- chris tweets in -- guest: he is talking about having a legal framework for people to work and go home. most of those who come here do not desire simpson should paris they want to come and work and be able to return home. -most of them who come here do not desire--- most of them who

come here do not desire citizenship. they wish to work and be able to return home. it is expensive and dangerous to cross the border. people tend to come and stay because they cannot go back. all the costs are incurred by arizona residents. host: a tweet -- guest: that is a good point. we need a growing economy. the economy in mexico is growing at a rapid pace, double digits right now. our economy is struggling. there are areas and our economy where we still need help, especially on the high-tech side.

we can bring in -- we are educating those in the stem cells in our universities. we are forcing them to return home and they could be here creating jobs. also, in the agricultural section in arizona, you have dozens of people across the border legally, work in the fields, and they return home across the border. a number of them are american citizens but they live in mexico because it is cheaper. you have situations in agriculture we need labor. caller: i have been waiting 10 minutes. i would like to send all of us did not come as illegal immigrants. i am a descendant of slaves. we did not come here looking for

jobs. we were brought here under an oppressive system. we came and 1619 before the pilgrims landed. people forget they had slavery and new york and other places in the east. when we got free, we could not vote. i am from texas. host: when it comes to immigration reform, what would you like to see? guest: this country has always wanted cheap labor. in texas, or for repairs, foundation repairs,--- i have had repairs, and i have had a

representative come out. it is a caucasian. it is a local business. when the people who come here to do the work, they are illegal lot of them. i think they are because some of them cannot speak the language. but these people are making money off of these people. i think it is disgusting. they need to come out of the shadows. they need to have some type of legal status. guest: i agree. that is the intent of this legislation, to get people out of the shadows and have a lot we can enforce and uphold the rule of law. host: two other questions -- to send out eight fleet on tuesday -- a tweet on tuesday --

i would prefer we do what we did in the house. pass legislation that says we need to hit spending reduction targets. the sequester hits defense hard. that should be done differently. unless we are going to hit a spending reduction targets, we have to let it go through. host: an issue that may be coming up is the u.s. airways potential merger in phoenix. guest: they need to keep those slots in the u.s. so we can keep those slots. it has been great for the state and for the county. i do not want to get and the middle of that. host: will the judges hearing

committee have to look at it? guest: it depends on how it is structured. host: would you support? guest: i would have to see what comes up. everyone is negotiating. host: st. paul, minnesota on our illegal emigrants line. - -- immigrants line. caller: someone who comes to this country thinking about working. in my case, i have four kids. my oldest one is eight years old. she needs to go to college.

i do not know how i will pay for college for her. i have had to quit jobs because i do not have documents to work. if--- i do not have a social security number. they usually tell me to go to the social security office and ask for the social security number. many people in the country have no idea how to get it. my question is after i can kick off the job many times, when they put through immigration reform and they think you have to pay fines and back taxes, which i do not know what they are talking about because you are paying taxes on your

paycheck, he need your paycheck, but they kick you off the job many times. host: when did you come to the u.s.? how did you get in? where are you from originally? caller: [indiscernible] i came on a tourist visa. host: and you just stayed. were you planning on distain when you that in? caller: no. i had a visa to come to visit. it forhe visa -- i held at least two months. i had a job. at the time, they were reforming

the new system and my country -- the political system. they were trying to make democracy. they have to privatize the companies. i was working for the company for a long time but i was kicked out because they were going reform. they gave the option to the people to leave because they had to pay to legalize them for a lot of money. host: another variation. guest: if you are advocating that there be no fines for back taxes, i am sorry. we cannot do that. there has to be a penalty. or that would be an amnesty. we will try to make people right with the law and come out of the chateau spirit and may be difficult. it may not be possible for some

to come up with the money. there has to be a penalty. that is recognized by everyone. host: fight on the springs, georgia. -- georgia. caller: i am not a bigot. i do not have a problem with emigration. -- immigration. when i go to the grocery store, you have a food stamp and spanish. that is what they are using to buy their food. then they go outside and try their new car. what is the deal? we are paying their way. there are driving new cars. they are living by people in a basement on a mattress on the floor. do you think there are in the shadows? they are working every day.

get out of the office and have a look. guest: 92. i am not sure if the people you have seen our an undocumented status. if they are, asian not be receiving food stamps. if we have a law passed -- if they are accommodation on the receiving food stamps. we may want everyone who speaks the same language in the same category. host: have begun on patrol with the border patrol? what is that like? guest: i have been several times. i have seen it in a variety of situations. for those who live on the border, for those who have property there, the ranchers,

they are were read. we have the murder of a rancher two years ago. there is a justifiable fear that they have that unless we get better security that their lives are at risk and their property is at risk. we do not have a secure border yet. it is better. we have more officers, better technology, better barriers, but we are still not there. we need more. host: james tweets in -- that is a cynical way to look at it. there are a number of democrats on capitol hill who want to do this for the right reasons. i think that reflects the position of those who are in this group. there may be some who want it just for political purposes. i would just assume the best and

move the head--- i will assume the best and move ahead. host: senator jeff blake. we will turn our attention to veterans and mental health with the killing of chris klye in texas. we will be right back with that segment after this news update from c-span radio. >> 9:20 a.m. eastern time. you are american sought the benefits from unemployment. it is a sign companies are hiring at a modest but steady press -- pace. weekly applications fell by 5000. and the labor department, productivity contracted at an annual rate at 2%, the biggest drops as the first quarter of 2011. productivity rose 3.2% from july

to september. productivity is the amount of output per hour of work. is saying nolah to direct nuclear talks with the united states. they say washington is holding a gun to iran, a reference to international sanctions that has cut oil revenue by 45%. the idea was mentioned by vice president by entering a security--- during a security summit. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> what i discovered is the were strategy to achieve happiness in life is to make that your primary goal. if you make happiness what you are striving for, you will not achieve it. you will be narcissistic and

self involved, caring about your own pleasures and air of satisfaction in life as a term bonds goal. that -- as a paramount goal. happiness is a byproduct of other things. it is a byproduct of meaningful work and family and friends and good health and love and care. we get happiness by throwing ourselves into life projects and try to be a good person. >> the whole foods co-founder and see l -- and ceo sunday night at 9:00 on "after words."

host: chris kyle was murdered last week by a former soldier who was suffering from ptsd. he appeared on the tv last april. here is what he had to say about veterans and ptsd. >> i do not think it will go away. it is something you have to learn to live with and work around, but it is something controllable and something that can be put to the -- that cannot be put to the back of your mind. it will be difficult for them to talk to someone who has not been there. unless you have been there and gone through it, they may have a hard time talking to you about it. the only thing you can do is be there for them. if they want to talk, let them

talk. no matter how bad or how shocking that it may be, one of them. give them your undying support. let them know you are here for you -- let them know, i am here for you. host: joining us is dr. cam ritchie. is that an effective solution? guest: my condolences go out to the family of mr. kyle and my sympathies to everyone who knew him. it is true that ptsd is something that many soldiers and marines were -- learned to live with. it is responsive to treatment. it does that go away completely in many cases. it becomes part of life. many veterans who returned from combat say their battle scarred -- they are battle scarred, but it is part of who they are now.

host: which did the term post traumatic stress disorder become part of the lexicon? guest: in 1980 after the end of the viet nam war. it existed before. people had soldier's heart from the civil war. they had battle fatigue and what were -- in world war ii. host: what percentage of soldiers have been diagnosed with ptsd? guest: there are a number of soldiers who had it and a number who have been diagnosed. many do not go for treatment and do not get diagnosed. most people consider that about 20% of soldiers deployed having posttraumatic stress disorder or

related sentence. diagnose, 5%. host: you can be diagnosed. what are the levels of severity? guest: there is a whole range. some people consider is the common cold of psychiatry. some people have developed it. if you have the symptoms of nightmares and have for vigilance -- if you have symptoms of nightmares, that is normal. if it gets in the way of your relationships of your work, get treatment. get help. in some cases, people cannot leave their house. they cannot stand crowded places. you should be getting help. there are some safe and effective treatments for ptsd. the earlier you get treatment,

the more responsive. host: what are some of these treatments? guest: talking therapy and drug therapy. talking therapy is talking about what happened or prolonged exposure. you are exposed gradually to things that bother you until you can tolerate them. some people can have problems going into the elevators or over bridges. you imagine going over the elevator -- echoing over the bridge or into an elevator. then you go over a bridge with someone driving. that is prolonged exposure. the other main type is medication. usually, it is a type of miles anti-depressant called ssri's. they are safe and effective for

ptsd par. host: our guest is cam ritchie. guest: i work in washington, d.c. and department of medical -- department of mental health. host: we have divided our usual lines. our fourth line is for active and retired military. if you suffer from ptsd, we would like to hear your story. here is a number -- is the veterans department doing enough for soldiers coming back from a complex? when it comes -- coming back

from a conflict when it comes to mental health issues? guest: they are doing all they can. there is more that needs to be done. neither the military or the va is able to meet the need. host: why are they? -- why not? guest: it is not for lack of trying. they do their best to hide your more counselors. there is a problem with the work force. there is not -- there is not enough in the u.s.. there are access problems. a lot of people will not go for treatment. they are worried about the stigma -- signet, their careers. this is more true for active duty members than who are not. many who have been in the military wants to get a job and

law enforcement or working for a consulting company. they are worried about their security and having the label of ptsd. another challenge is the treatments i mentioned take time. some people do not want to do that. i am interested in finding a treatment for ptsd that soldiers are willing to go to. there are exciting new approaches. host: is it legal to deny someone a position because they have been diagnosed with ptsd? guest: i do not know if it is legal, but i know it happens. people have told me that they have gotten into the police applicant process. when they get to the medical and someone sees the diagnosis, they say, why did you try? host: al, florida, retired the

lottery. caller: i am a retired navy contingent -- commander. i have worked for five years as a peer counselor with beds with posttraumatic stress. i am one of the persons who got the veterans health administration to issue a decree that canada's can be used by veterans for the treatment of ptsd -- for better and problems. what is your opinion on the use of cannabis? guest: thank you for your service. you mentioned posttraumatic stress without the disorder. there is a lot of discussion whether ptsd should be renamed

posttraumatic stress or pressure madigan injury. there is a lot of validity behind taking a look at the name. many people do not want to be diagnosed as having a disorder on injury -- an industry -- an injury is considered to be more honorable. in washington, d.c., we see people who develop psychosis as a result of using marijuana or the synthetic marijuana. i do not think we know and not yet about the use of marijuana for ptsd. i think we should export it. there should be research done on it. we may be able to use some of the materials and cannabis -- in cannabis. there are different derivations. i would not at this point support canada's use for ptsd without more research.

host: in the federal -- $6 billion in 2012. readjustment counseling, $189 million. guest: readjustment counseling is helping people cope with returning to the u.s. the military altered that. it is harder than you think after you have been away for a year or 15 months and you have seen all of those awful things to come back and simply join normal life again. there are specialists who can help with that transition. host: colorado. guest: -- caller: i was being treated at a

facility here. at the end of eight months, they misdiagnosed my treatment. i had to have a special surgery. after the surgery, now i suffer because they did not give me enough medicine during surgery. waking up, i was screaming. they asked me about three years later if i suffered from ptsd. i said i thought i -- i said i think i am. there is no real help. i would like you to know that when you talk about disabled veterans, you have to talk about the ones that worked in war. it seems like if you are not -- if he did not get to -- if he did not go to war, you do not get treated.

guest: not all ptsd is related to combat or war. you can get it from a number of different trauma as that include sexual assault -- trauma, including sexual assault, 9/11. many people develop symptoms for a full-blown disorder. its last it was related to the surgery. i would emphasize that treatment is effective, but for more people, it is hard to get to, especially in rural areas. the military is doing more with telemedicine to get into the rural areas, but that is not yet enough. one thing that is exciting is there is something called a virtual reality pickering -- purred true reality. that is the exposure of therapy

over a computer or mobile device. it is in its beginning phases. it is not yet approved, but promising resource -- there has been promising research. host: virginia, republican. caller: do you think that the disproportionate unemployment rate for veterans is partially to blame for some of the mental- health issues? there is a video from penn state university staff about dealing with the word some veterans. you can find it on the internet. is there some type of stigmatizing effect in higher education? guest: that is a good question. i have long believed that the best mental health intervention is a good job. yes, and employment data in such

a beast to problems with self- esteem -- unemployment contributes to problems with self-esteem. generous to not know what to do with themselves. -- veterans to not know what to do with themselves. if he mean that colleges do not want to veterans, that has not been my experience. colleges have welcomed veterans. many veterans who have been in combat struggle when they get into higher education because ptsd or because they cannot sit at a desk after the have been used to an active lifestyle. colleges are learning about this and trying to overcome it. they have a ways to go. i would recommend to all colleges is make sure there are counselors who know how to treat pst. if you do not have a veterans'

support group, start one. host: she got her undergraduate degree at harvard radcliffe. guest: harvard and radcliffe had joined there. i was at a harvard house and felt like i came to harvard, but radcliff has a rich vision. host: medical degree from george washington university. presidency at walter reed. -- residency at walter reed. how has it changed when it comes to treating ptsd in the last 20 years? guest: it is at a deep military response -- it is in korea. i joined the army because they paid for medical school.

in terms of the treatment for ptsd, what we know now is that there is very safe and effective medications. we know more about prolonged exposure and talking therapy. there is less -- there was less ptsd when i was a korea. there were some vietnam veterans on active duty. a lot of the vietnam veterans had been doing well until they came back to korea. the smell of rotting fruits -- food triggered the flashbacks to vietnam. that is a -- people can be triggered by sounds like helicopters going overhead. veterans out there should not be surprised. when i came back from somalia,

it was the fourth of july. i hit deadpan -- when the fireworks went off, i hit the deck. host: how long did that experience stay with you? were you suffering from psc d? guest: i had the high for vigilance. -- hyper-vigilance. it is when these interfere with their relationships or work, get treatment. host: from what you know about the chris kyle situation, was he acting as part of the veterans administration or as a friend? guest: i do not know everything. i may have something wrong. he was very interested in

helping veterans. he brought them to the firing range to help them calm down and concentrate. from the clip you played a while ago, he is interested in helping his fellow soldiers and marines with post-traumatic stress disorder. host: oregon. host: --- caller: my p t s sometimes come from being raped. -- my ptsd comes from being raped. five years ago, i finally got the ptsd diagnosis. it made things easier for me.

i got employment. i have gotten over problems. i have seen a psychologist at the veteran center. times have changed. it is better now at the va. i was taught and my military career not to deal with it. guest: you made a very important point. that is sexual assault does happen to men as well as women. it is often really underreported because there is some much shame and stigma around the sexual assault. ptsd from sexual assault is tough to deal with offense because people feel so humiliated and so helpless. in combat, you are trained.

you know how to fight back. people do better with combat related ptsd often. i am glad you are getting the help you need and that you have the disability increase. host: a tweet -- guest: we know that people have some psychological reaction from war from other wars. my father and grandfathers fought in wars. there was suffocating -- there was seldom medicating with alcohol. -- there was self medicating with alcohol. there were different cultural expectations. ptsd depends on the culture you are in. it is different in different cultures.

i think you and your father for the four wars. that is a lot of fighting. i am hoping that by recognizing ptsd and treating it early, we avoid what we saw from vietnam, which was a slide into joblessness and hopelessness and substance abuse. we are seeing that what some of the iraq and afghan wars. it is important for the nation to say, what can we do for the recent wars? it is more cost-effective to treat people early than to have them be out on the street and homeless. it is expensive to treat people with chronic disease. host: is it required for departing soldiers to go through a mental health evaluation as part is there -- as part of them leaving? guest: there are numerous mental health evaluations.

soldiers to not like to report that they are having difficulties. then minimize symptoms. usually, it is not until well after words that they start to say, there is something going on. they may or may not be willing to seek treatment. host: what do you look for? guest: there are three categories. one is interested thoughts, flashbacks. you may see images. one of the things people do is if they have seen that bodies, they see them again and again. that is one cluster of symptoms. another is numbness and disassociation. you cannot relate to people who have not been there. you want to stay at home. that is the horse for

relationships. the third is the hyper vigilance. looking to see if it is a sniper. that is adapted to combat because that is what you need to do over in afghanistan. there is a change that is happening right now. the new diagnostics at some times to that. sleep difficulties, eligibility -- irritability, cognitive disabilities. it is widening the diagnostic criteria so it will be easier to diagnose. host: georgia. caller: thank you for your service. everyone suffers from being

hypersensitive. chris cal reminds me of the mother from connecticut who was -- chris keitel reminds me of the mother from connecticut, which is crazy. do you think that our army with people going in at a young age being expected to -- they are serving the country well after four years and cannot find a job when they get out. they have to go back to a menial job. that is a lot on a young person. they are given evaluations after they get out. they may have not been eligible to go in the military if it was not for the volunteer army. you went in with the purpose to get your college degree.

guest: you are raising a number of points. let me pick one, which is the difficulty reintegrating after you have been in combat. you have had a tremendous sense of mission. if you may have been a mayor of an iraqi town or responsible for logistics. you come back here. you can only get a menial job stocking shelves in a department store. it can be hard to adapt. one of the things that helps veterans is a generous helping each other. one really useful activity for people coming back is if they cannot get a job immediately, what can they do to help other veterans? soldiers and marines like to help each other. if you are out there and that position where you are struggling, hook up with an

organization that does that. either traditional federal and service organizations or the newer ones. host: a tweet -- guest: yes, it does. it is not in the diagnostic criteria. if we see that. one of the problems is they were spat on. they were told that they had no reason to be over there. for world war ii, that was seen as a noble effort. now, there is a tremendous sense of support for the soldier. when i flew in uniform, everyone will think me for my service.

that was neat. i think it is important that we continue to have the support for the soldier and marine, whatever the views are. host: indianapolis, dean. caller: i would like to thank the colonel for appearing on the show as well as c-span for offering this opportunity. i retired because my disability was sustained and iraq. my concern right now is that the agencies that are there to help the veterans are backlogged to such an extent that we have a backlog of nearly 1 million files at the veterans administration for compensation and pension claims. we also have a backlog for the army. it took nearly a year for me to get retired.

i really wish that the surgeon general will look at this, especially from the army standpoint, and realize that there are veterans being kicked off of active duty who do have injuries right now. host: are you still in treatment? caller: know. i have been retired since december 2011. i am rated at 90% through the veterans and ministrations. however, like the colonel mentioned, many of us would rather be at home. my specific disability is panic attacks while driving and flying. i will never drive or fly again. i will never try at a state. i am comfortable in this setting that i -- and the setting in man. -- i am comfortable in the setting in. host: where did you serve?

caller: and at that prompted as a sex until to-1/7. -- i served in baghdad fr 2000. guest: think you for your service. in 2006 and 2007, that was a surge period. things got better after that. panic attacks are treatable. i would not limit yourself to singing you will never fly again or drive added state. some of the mideast that i mentioned can be helpful. -- some of the remedies that i mentioned can be helpful. do not give up yet. sometimes the things take time. do not get a pit. host: -- do not give up yet. host: dusty be a pay for him to

see a private psychiatrist, -- does the va pay for him to see a private psychiatrist? guest: he should be getting va/ . if he is medically retired, he is eligible for try care -- tricare. if you see a private psychiatrist, try to find one that is experienced in this area. i will put in a plug right now to any such bill and psychiatrists or psychologist. there is a lot of good training available on the web, much for free, for how to treat posttraumatic stress disorder. we tend to lump it all together. it is depression, anxiety. it is important to know about the culture of the military.

now to ask what kind of job somebody had. do not treat the soldier as a victim or as something that done to them. they tend to be proud of their service. talk to them about their service. you are part of the solution. we need to know how to treat our returning service members. host: when they talk about percentage of disabled, how does that determine -- how is that determined? guest: disability is complicated and controversial. in the past, when some of the military, they would have an exam that would determine whether they were disabled and what their disability would be. they would go to the va and have another exam and disability rating. that is being merged into one

evaluation system. it has an acronym, i.d.e .s. people are frustrated at how long the disability rating takes. ideally, it would be one i desk -- one exam. host: mary, and toshiba -- mary, ky. caller: i have a lot of people that have been in wars. i just got a grandson that joined the army. i have known people that have talked to me about their experience. i think a good suggestion would be -- we have a lot of federal

land. if they would allow some kind of a situation to be built on this property where the soldiers could come back to where there are trees, grass, flowers, water, and as a group, be able to communicate with each other first because they will all the talk to each other. they want to talk to their bodies. or someone who understands what in the heck they went through. you can go to for difference psychiatrists. each will give you a different disorder. guest: i appreciate those thoughts. there have been good efforts that have done things similar to that. not so much federal land. there is the coming home project

that provides a retreat for service members. there are other attempts to get people together to reconnect. people do not like talking to psychiatrists in general. when people come to me, they sniff around me to see if i untrustworthy. after they get to know me, they open up. people to open a more to people who have been in combat with them or other veterans. host: according to the department of veterans affairs, the estimated numbers of farren suicides per day by year in 2007, 18. 2008, 21. 2009 and 2010, 22 suicides per day. is that higher than the civilian average? it seems high. guest: the number of veterans suicides per day is a tragedy.

it is something that we need to pay attention to. the actual numbers may or may not have increased. what we are doing is getting better data. the 18 per day was an estimate. some people call it a back of an envelope estimate. it is way too high. we need to pay attention to it. one of the things that we have done in the army is we have information about every suicide and the army. we know why someone killed themselves. it issues related to a relationship break up or getting into trouble at work. we know the stressors. we do not yet know the stressors add -- that cause some to commit suicide. younger and older veterans are

different populations. we do not know for sure why there is suicide. most of us believe it is unemployment, substance abuse. and the civilian world, it is comparable to the civilian world. higher and some animal and -- and lower in others. the stresses the need for good understanding of what causes suicide and how to prevent it. host: $6 billion in the budget for mental-health issues at keeping va. does that need to be increased? guest: that is a hard question for me to answer. the $6 billion is a lot of money. i'd do nine know -- i do not know if it is being used as effectively as it should be. in general, i want to see